Post by Admin on Mar 8, 2015 14:10:14 GMT
Britannia's Charted to the Forces
Posted on original forum on the 08/08/2007 by Turboprop52Does any one remember any or know of information on Britannia’s traveling to the Far East especially Singapore in the 60s. Did you travel on any of them? I went in August 1966 not long after the World cup took place and stayed in Singapore till late 1968. I know that we flew by British Eagle on our outward journey and think we departed from Stanstead. I don’t know the registration of the aircraft or the flight route but believe we did land at Brindisi and then Beirut to Kuwait and then over to India and Karachi to Bombay or even Colombo now Shri Lanka. I do know for sure that our return was on Britannia chartered by Lloyds as i still have the map of the flight drawn on it from Brindisi back to Stanstead that was given out for the passengers and i rescued it when it was finished with. On the reverse is the flight Stats including height speed and the cabin crew names including the captain. This Aircraft was eventually sold to REDCOAT and then it went to Luton for Fire training. So it’s now gone. I know the number to be G-AOVS and this is the one just before G-AOVT that is now at Duxford with Monarch colours on it. I do loved those Protus engines and vividly remember the way the exhaust came out over the back trailing edge of the wings. Does any one know if Hendon was used by the Military to fly from with regard to flights for the Far East? My first flight on any aircraft was in 1955 on a Avro-York from i believe Stanstead to Malaya and most likely returned in 1955 on a Bristol Britannia, but not sure with which Airline but will keep you posted. Am so pleased that this site is here now and hope to make the journey to Liverpool before too long to see the Eagle colours once more.
Posted on original forum on the 05/09/2007 by Red Eagle
Hello Turboprop52, Thanks for your message. A good number of our Britannia aircraft flew to the Far East so it’s a bit difficult to list which ones. May be some ex crew will submit some information. G-AOVS is still at Luton in a very sad state of affairs. We hope very soon to be able to put on some pictures of her remains taken by one of the group restoring the Brit at Liverpool (G-ANCF). Glad that you appreciate the website we have a lot more to add when time permits.
Posted on original forum on the 26/11/2007 by old eagle
IIRC I would suggest that all the Britannia’s were used on the Far East/Australia troopers, and the freighter conversions specifically on the Woomera flights. DC
Posted on original forum on the 28/11/2007 by viscount800
Turboprop, Interesting memories of flights. Worried slightly by your reference to flying home from Malaya in a Britannia in 1955. The very first deliveries of Britannia 102s were made to BOAC after Christmas December 1955, G-ANBC and G-ANBD, to be used on prestigious passenger routes. Perhaps a HP Hastings (RAF), HP Hermes (Airwork, Skyways) or even an Avro Tudor (Air Charter) would better fit the 1955 date for a four-engined transport home? Hendon (now the site of the RAF museum, north of London) ceased to be an active military field well before the Sixties. It was certainly never the post-war airfield terminus for long haul trooping flights - did the station though act as a transit camp for troops before being taken to the departure airport for travel overseas? Unfortunately, being northern based I never acquired the Action Stations airfield history editions that covered the southern counties - so cannot state units or dates with any certainty. Lyneham and Brize Norton have long been the main UK termini for military trooping flights. Although absolutely nothing to do with this thread, trooping, or indeed British Eagle, my own fondly remembered Britannia flights were in twilight years of the type, in August 1971, on Britannia 314 5Y-ANS of African Safari Airlines (QS) on a charter Gatwick-Benghazi-Nairobi and return a fortnight later Embakasi (Kampala)-Benghazi-Gatwick. My notes show legs of 5 hours and 8 hours outbound, 7 hours 15 and 5 hours 20 return. Outbound an evening departure from Gatwick saw us watching (with some trepidation) lightning flashes within the cloud of a massive thunderstorm over Paris. The fuel stop, shortly before dawn in Libya saw us all herded out of the aeroplane at gun point to stand corralled out on the apron in terrific heat and noise - not of aircraft but of the insect dawn chorus! There then followed a rough day light Sahara crossing at 15,000 at 300mph ground - the cabin filled with a high whistle of escaping pressurised air. The return Sahara crossing was at night, somewhat higher, quieter and very much smoother! The charter was organised in the middle of a UK postal strike (college students going home to Ireland carried mail to post to our hosts in Kenya and Uganda!) and while in Uganda we met the Minister for Education in Idi Amin early Government (who was later to disappear). The Britannia 5Y-ANS started life as CF-CZX in mid 1958 with Canadian Pacific, then G-ATMA with Caledonian before 5Y-ANS with ASA and back to G-ATMA with International Aviation Services before withdrawn from use at Biggin Hill 6.73 and broken up there 8.75.
As a young soldier in 1965 November (I think) I was on a British Eagle
Britannia 312 G-AOVB Endeavour was damaged in a heavy landing at Gan (Maldives) with a nose wheel collapse, 10th October 1965 en route Bahrain to Australia. It was repaired and returned to service. The date almost matches your recollection! For a memory jogger, go back to the Home Page, follow the link Aircraft Operated, then select by registration to find and select G-AOVB, read and then select photos at Gan. Go on it will be worthwhile.
G-AOVB: first flight at Bristol/Filton 5.7.57, and del. to BOAC 10.9.57. Initially leased to; then purchased by British Eagle, del. 15.10.63 and named Endeavour (although on a temporary basis was Resolution probably early 66). Damaged Gan 10.10.65 and repaired. Converted to a freighter (series 312F) at Heathrow summer 68. In service when British Eagle ceased trading 11.68. Purchased by Aerotransportes Entre Rios 3.10.69 and delivered as LV-PNJ becoming LV-JNL two weeks later when entered service. Damaged beyond repair landing in fog at Buenos Aires/Ezeira Airport, Argentina 12.7.70.I can well recall watching Britannia’s reverse at Liverpool Airport on a couple of occasions when the pilot felt he had insufficient clearance to continue forward. On one occasion reversing the full the length of the apron, on another doing a four point turn with two reverse legs, guided by a member of the ground staff and the co-pilot leaning well out the cockpit window! Cannot recall other aircraft doing this until the advent of nose-in parking and watching Short SD.3-60s and BAe. ATPs reverse straight back off the stand. The manoeuvre was possible due to the ability to place the propellers in reverse thrust so although still rotating in the same direction the thrust was directed forwards rather than back.
Paddy Ray, I have now found the answer to your principal question. The answer comes from David Hedges 2002 book The Eagle Years 1948-1968 pub tahs, on page 39. I hope he will not mind me typing out several paragraphs about the cause of the crash. Ill start though with the paragraph before that puts the incident somewhat into context. British Eagle were very experienced at operations in to remote airfields and they were only too well aware of the many hazards including the unpredictability of the weather, especially in areas of the world affected by the seasonal monsoons. During one such operation on October 10th, all 120 passengers and crew were lucky to escape without injury. Britannia G-AOVB was inbound from Bahrain on a trooping flight to Australia and was substantially damaged after a heavy landing at Gan in the Maldives Islands. During a daylight approach to runway 28 in poor weather conditions, moderate rain was encountered, and with the aircraft configured for landing, visual contact with the ground was lost at 100 feet due to extremely heavy rain resulting in complete loss of forward vision. An immediate overshoot was initiated but the aircraft struck the ground and bounced back into the air, at which point it was clear of the rain and the whole airfield became visible. The impact during the overshoot had damaged the nose undercarriage, but of more significance, the crash inertia switches were activated, causing all fuel valves to the engines to close. Powerless, the aircraft touched down to the right of the runway and continued for some distance before the damaged nose leg collapsed. Happily there was no fire and also no injuries to passengers and crew during evacuation. There was considerable damage to the forward fuselage as a result of the failure of the nose undercarriage as well as damage to both inboard propellers as they made contact with the ground. Eagles team of professional engineers was dispatched to undertake the repair and repatriation of the aircraft. Although Gan was only a small RAF base, they had sufficient facilities and equipment to assist Eagles repair team during their two-month stay. The aircraft arrived back at Heathrow around December 12th.
Turboprop 65, Nice to hear further of your recollections. Since your first post that started off this thread, I notice that the date of your return Malaya to the UK has changed from 1955 to 1958 - which does make a return by Britannia much more possible. There were no RAF marked Viscounts in 1958, and the Viscounts that both earlier and subsequently bore military markings were used for test purposes and not for routine passenger flights. The Viscount never entered into regular squadron service with the RAF, unlike the Britannia where two squadrons (99 and 511) were equipped with 23 aircraft. As a type the Viscount was a short range aircraft well suited to European flights, but unsuitable for long distance routes. The RAF Britannia fleet had rearward facing seats as standard, as did their other military transport types. I believe this was because it was considered safer in an accident as the seats would absorb the de-acceleration forces. Airlines found paying passengers liked to see the way they were going, so traded safety for PR!! Some civilian aircraft used on long-term contract to the RAF had rear-ward seats installed. However, the RAF Britannia deliveries only commenced June 1959, so cannot therefore be candidates for your 1958 flight, neither can British Eagle as Cunard Eagle only took delivery of their first in 1960. To be a Britannia in 1958 it would have to be a B.O.A.C. aircraft. The likely alternatives, Hastings, Avro Tudor or HP Hermes have the same basic layout as the Britannia and Viscount in that they are four engine, low wing, (but only the Hermes had a tricycle undercarriage and all three were piston powered). Interesting question to muse over.
Hi Answer to Wombles reply to my Post.
Thanks for the Information. I decided to have another chat with my Father about our trip to Malaya in 1955 to 1958. Out going-We are more than certain it was by Avro York from Stanstead and the return we are thinking now was not the Britannia as first though but in a Vickers Viscount in RAF Markings. My father was posted there for the Malayan Emergency and we stayed in Jahore Baru and went to a British school at a Army Camp called Majeede Barracks. I remember sitting backwards in the aircraft for the either the trip to Malaya for the outward journey or even homeward in the Vickers? My reference to staying at Hendon was due to the family being held there prior to dispatch or on the way back? My parents have recently given me all our family photos to copy and in amongst them is one of my sister walking to a British Eagle parked on the Apron at Colombo as it was known then. Its in Black and white taken by a BOX BROWNIE camera. This was the outward journey in August 1966 and shows a flight attendant in RAF uniform!! These trips were taken from Stanstead to Istanbul to Kuwait to Colombo over to Karachi and down the Malaysian pensular to Kuala Lumpa and then on to Changi Singapore. The last Journey home from Singapore was in August September 1968 with G-AOVS which I am certain of. As I have the inflight route plan and the Markings were that of Lloyds, so they must have leased it from BE and chartered it to bring the Troops and families home. Will up date this info as further information comes about.
Turboprop652I suspect that the possible York that you mention was not Eagle as they had finished using them and they were sold November 1954 Mr Bamberg had at this time considered that the problems with the civil service, who’s job it was to protect the state airlines was to difficult. His love of aviation prevailed and he continued to operate as a short haul operator. Regarding the Viscount I would not think that this was an Eagle aircraft but may be wrong. I don’t think they operated Viscounts in RAF colours. G-AOVS would have been in use by Lloyds. As Eagle had returned this aircraft to Lloyds by November1965. The passenger flight bulletin that you speak of would confirm they were the operator. Hope this may help.ps Eagle did charter two Yorks in 1954 to cover some large freight charters.
Hello Eagle Flyers. In response to my posting and the Photo (Black & White) of the Britannia in Eagle Livery parked waiting for us to re-board I have looked at the markings and enhanced the photo and now can see its G-AOVA (JUSTICE) under a magnifying glass. I am pleased as it was bugging me for a little while. I have thought about the dates a lot and am able to say we were in Malaya in April 1955 to September 1958. So it was a Avro York from Stanstead and a Vickers on the way back. Could have been RAF or Early Eagle! The Singapore trip in 1966 and back in 1968 was indeed in a British Eagle G-AOVA on the way out and a Lloyds Charter Britannia on the way home GAOVS. Regards Andrew
Posted on original forum on the 08/08/2007 by Turboprop52Does any one remember any or know of information on Britannia’s traveling to the Far East especially Singapore in the 60s. Did you travel on any of them? I went in August 1966 not long after the World cup took place and stayed in Singapore till late 1968. I know that we flew by British Eagle on our outward journey and think we departed from Stanstead. I don’t know the registration of the aircraft or the flight route but believe we did land at Brindisi and then Beirut to Kuwait and then over to India and Karachi to Bombay or even Colombo now Shri Lanka. I do know for sure that our return was on Britannia chartered by Lloyds as i still have the map of the flight drawn on it from Brindisi back to Stanstead that was given out for the passengers and i rescued it when it was finished with. On the reverse is the flight Stats including height speed and the cabin crew names including the captain. This Aircraft was eventually sold to REDCOAT and then it went to Luton for Fire training. So it’s now gone. I know the number to be G-AOVS and this is the one just before G-AOVT that is now at Duxford with Monarch colours on it. I do loved those Protus engines and vividly remember the way the exhaust came out over the back trailing edge of the wings. Does any one know if Hendon was used by the Military to fly from with regard to flights for the Far East? My first flight on any aircraft was in 1955 on a Avro-York from i believe Stanstead to Malaya and most likely returned in 1955 on a Bristol Britannia, but not sure with which Airline but will keep you posted. Am so pleased that this site is here now and hope to make the journey to Liverpool before too long to see the Eagle colours once more.
Posted on original forum on the 05/09/2007 by Red Eagle
Hello Turboprop52, Thanks for your message. A good number of our Britannia aircraft flew to the Far East so it’s a bit difficult to list which ones. May be some ex crew will submit some information. G-AOVS is still at Luton in a very sad state of affairs. We hope very soon to be able to put on some pictures of her remains taken by one of the group restoring the Brit at Liverpool (G-ANCF). Glad that you appreciate the website we have a lot more to add when time permits.
Posted on original forum on the 26/11/2007 by old eagle
IIRC I would suggest that all the Britannia’s were used on the Far East/Australia troopers, and the freighter conversions specifically on the Woomera flights. DC
Posted on original forum on the 28/11/2007 by viscount800
Turboprop, Interesting memories of flights. Worried slightly by your reference to flying home from Malaya in a Britannia in 1955. The very first deliveries of Britannia 102s were made to BOAC after Christmas December 1955, G-ANBC and G-ANBD, to be used on prestigious passenger routes. Perhaps a HP Hastings (RAF), HP Hermes (Airwork, Skyways) or even an Avro Tudor (Air Charter) would better fit the 1955 date for a four-engined transport home? Hendon (now the site of the RAF museum, north of London) ceased to be an active military field well before the Sixties. It was certainly never the post-war airfield terminus for long haul trooping flights - did the station though act as a transit camp for troops before being taken to the departure airport for travel overseas? Unfortunately, being northern based I never acquired the Action Stations airfield history editions that covered the southern counties - so cannot state units or dates with any certainty. Lyneham and Brize Norton have long been the main UK termini for military trooping flights. Although absolutely nothing to do with this thread, trooping, or indeed British Eagle, my own fondly remembered Britannia flights were in twilight years of the type, in August 1971, on Britannia 314 5Y-ANS of African Safari Airlines (QS) on a charter Gatwick-Benghazi-Nairobi and return a fortnight later Embakasi (Kampala)-Benghazi-Gatwick. My notes show legs of 5 hours and 8 hours outbound, 7 hours 15 and 5 hours 20 return. Outbound an evening departure from Gatwick saw us watching (with some trepidation) lightning flashes within the cloud of a massive thunderstorm over Paris. The fuel stop, shortly before dawn in Libya saw us all herded out of the aeroplane at gun point to stand corralled out on the apron in terrific heat and noise - not of aircraft but of the insect dawn chorus! There then followed a rough day light Sahara crossing at 15,000 at 300mph ground - the cabin filled with a high whistle of escaping pressurised air. The return Sahara crossing was at night, somewhat higher, quieter and very much smoother! The charter was organised in the middle of a UK postal strike (college students going home to Ireland carried mail to post to our hosts in Kenya and Uganda!) and while in Uganda we met the Minister for Education in Idi Amin early Government (who was later to disappear). The Britannia 5Y-ANS started life as CF-CZX in mid 1958 with Canadian Pacific, then G-ATMA with Caledonian before 5Y-ANS with ASA and back to G-ATMA with International Aviation Services before withdrawn from use at Biggin Hill 6.73 and broken up there 8.75.
As a young soldier in 1965 November (I think) I was on a British Eagle
Britannia 312 G-AOVB Endeavour was damaged in a heavy landing at Gan (Maldives) with a nose wheel collapse, 10th October 1965 en route Bahrain to Australia. It was repaired and returned to service. The date almost matches your recollection! For a memory jogger, go back to the Home Page, follow the link Aircraft Operated, then select by registration to find and select G-AOVB, read and then select photos at Gan. Go on it will be worthwhile.
G-AOVB: first flight at Bristol/Filton 5.7.57, and del. to BOAC 10.9.57. Initially leased to; then purchased by British Eagle, del. 15.10.63 and named Endeavour (although on a temporary basis was Resolution probably early 66). Damaged Gan 10.10.65 and repaired. Converted to a freighter (series 312F) at Heathrow summer 68. In service when British Eagle ceased trading 11.68. Purchased by Aerotransportes Entre Rios 3.10.69 and delivered as LV-PNJ becoming LV-JNL two weeks later when entered service. Damaged beyond repair landing in fog at Buenos Aires/Ezeira Airport, Argentina 12.7.70.I can well recall watching Britannia’s reverse at Liverpool Airport on a couple of occasions when the pilot felt he had insufficient clearance to continue forward. On one occasion reversing the full the length of the apron, on another doing a four point turn with two reverse legs, guided by a member of the ground staff and the co-pilot leaning well out the cockpit window! Cannot recall other aircraft doing this until the advent of nose-in parking and watching Short SD.3-60s and BAe. ATPs reverse straight back off the stand. The manoeuvre was possible due to the ability to place the propellers in reverse thrust so although still rotating in the same direction the thrust was directed forwards rather than back.
Paddy Ray, I have now found the answer to your principal question. The answer comes from David Hedges 2002 book The Eagle Years 1948-1968 pub tahs, on page 39. I hope he will not mind me typing out several paragraphs about the cause of the crash. Ill start though with the paragraph before that puts the incident somewhat into context. British Eagle were very experienced at operations in to remote airfields and they were only too well aware of the many hazards including the unpredictability of the weather, especially in areas of the world affected by the seasonal monsoons. During one such operation on October 10th, all 120 passengers and crew were lucky to escape without injury. Britannia G-AOVB was inbound from Bahrain on a trooping flight to Australia and was substantially damaged after a heavy landing at Gan in the Maldives Islands. During a daylight approach to runway 28 in poor weather conditions, moderate rain was encountered, and with the aircraft configured for landing, visual contact with the ground was lost at 100 feet due to extremely heavy rain resulting in complete loss of forward vision. An immediate overshoot was initiated but the aircraft struck the ground and bounced back into the air, at which point it was clear of the rain and the whole airfield became visible. The impact during the overshoot had damaged the nose undercarriage, but of more significance, the crash inertia switches were activated, causing all fuel valves to the engines to close. Powerless, the aircraft touched down to the right of the runway and continued for some distance before the damaged nose leg collapsed. Happily there was no fire and also no injuries to passengers and crew during evacuation. There was considerable damage to the forward fuselage as a result of the failure of the nose undercarriage as well as damage to both inboard propellers as they made contact with the ground. Eagles team of professional engineers was dispatched to undertake the repair and repatriation of the aircraft. Although Gan was only a small RAF base, they had sufficient facilities and equipment to assist Eagles repair team during their two-month stay. The aircraft arrived back at Heathrow around December 12th.
Turboprop 65, Nice to hear further of your recollections. Since your first post that started off this thread, I notice that the date of your return Malaya to the UK has changed from 1955 to 1958 - which does make a return by Britannia much more possible. There were no RAF marked Viscounts in 1958, and the Viscounts that both earlier and subsequently bore military markings were used for test purposes and not for routine passenger flights. The Viscount never entered into regular squadron service with the RAF, unlike the Britannia where two squadrons (99 and 511) were equipped with 23 aircraft. As a type the Viscount was a short range aircraft well suited to European flights, but unsuitable for long distance routes. The RAF Britannia fleet had rearward facing seats as standard, as did their other military transport types. I believe this was because it was considered safer in an accident as the seats would absorb the de-acceleration forces. Airlines found paying passengers liked to see the way they were going, so traded safety for PR!! Some civilian aircraft used on long-term contract to the RAF had rear-ward seats installed. However, the RAF Britannia deliveries only commenced June 1959, so cannot therefore be candidates for your 1958 flight, neither can British Eagle as Cunard Eagle only took delivery of their first in 1960. To be a Britannia in 1958 it would have to be a B.O.A.C. aircraft. The likely alternatives, Hastings, Avro Tudor or HP Hermes have the same basic layout as the Britannia and Viscount in that they are four engine, low wing, (but only the Hermes had a tricycle undercarriage and all three were piston powered). Interesting question to muse over.
Hi Answer to Wombles reply to my Post.
Thanks for the Information. I decided to have another chat with my Father about our trip to Malaya in 1955 to 1958. Out going-We are more than certain it was by Avro York from Stanstead and the return we are thinking now was not the Britannia as first though but in a Vickers Viscount in RAF Markings. My father was posted there for the Malayan Emergency and we stayed in Jahore Baru and went to a British school at a Army Camp called Majeede Barracks. I remember sitting backwards in the aircraft for the either the trip to Malaya for the outward journey or even homeward in the Vickers? My reference to staying at Hendon was due to the family being held there prior to dispatch or on the way back? My parents have recently given me all our family photos to copy and in amongst them is one of my sister walking to a British Eagle parked on the Apron at Colombo as it was known then. Its in Black and white taken by a BOX BROWNIE camera. This was the outward journey in August 1966 and shows a flight attendant in RAF uniform!! These trips were taken from Stanstead to Istanbul to Kuwait to Colombo over to Karachi and down the Malaysian pensular to Kuala Lumpa and then on to Changi Singapore. The last Journey home from Singapore was in August September 1968 with G-AOVS which I am certain of. As I have the inflight route plan and the Markings were that of Lloyds, so they must have leased it from BE and chartered it to bring the Troops and families home. Will up date this info as further information comes about.
Turboprop652I suspect that the possible York that you mention was not Eagle as they had finished using them and they were sold November 1954 Mr Bamberg had at this time considered that the problems with the civil service, who’s job it was to protect the state airlines was to difficult. His love of aviation prevailed and he continued to operate as a short haul operator. Regarding the Viscount I would not think that this was an Eagle aircraft but may be wrong. I don’t think they operated Viscounts in RAF colours. G-AOVS would have been in use by Lloyds. As Eagle had returned this aircraft to Lloyds by November1965. The passenger flight bulletin that you speak of would confirm they were the operator. Hope this may help.ps Eagle did charter two Yorks in 1954 to cover some large freight charters.
Hello Eagle Flyers. In response to my posting and the Photo (Black & White) of the Britannia in Eagle Livery parked waiting for us to re-board I have looked at the markings and enhanced the photo and now can see its G-AOVA (JUSTICE) under a magnifying glass. I am pleased as it was bugging me for a little while. I have thought about the dates a lot and am able to say we were in Malaya in April 1955 to September 1958. So it was a Avro York from Stanstead and a Vickers on the way back. Could have been RAF or Early Eagle! The Singapore trip in 1966 and back in 1968 was indeed in a British Eagle G-AOVA on the way out and a Lloyds Charter Britannia on the way home GAOVS. Regards Andrew